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Hi,

It has been said before, but I dont mind repeating it :-) - you seem
like a helpful bunch in this group! And most of my questions have been
answered in other threads, but still I have some additional questions
concerning a Kenya trip that I am sure some of you will be able to give some
helpful advice on. So here I go :-)

I am going to Kenya in december and will have app. 7 days to spend doing
tourist stuff. Obviously it will not be a problem to spend this time, but I
will been very happy for suggestions on what will the best way to spend this
time on a somewhat limited budget.

Both Safari, (gorilla) tracking and mountain trekking etc. seems very
interesting - but given the limitations in time I suppose something has to
give. And perhaps something else would actually be just as interesting?

I imagine some sort of Safari is a must? And that both a Masai Mara trip or
a Serengeti trip into Tanzania will be available from Nairobi. Looking at
some of the agencies offerings - a 3 to 4 day trip seems reasonable? Any
comments?

More ambitious - I have been looking at Gorilla tracking expeditions in
Uganda:
http://www.uwa.or.ug/

http://www.uwa.or.ug/gorilla.html

http://www.uwa.or.ug/bwindi.html

Is that realistic in the given timeframe - or/ and is that something you
would normally only do on a much longer trip?

Reading websites on Kenya I cant really get an easy handle on treks around
Mt. Kenya and Mt. Kilimanjaro. Often one reads something about 5 or 6 day
treks for each mountain. But does shorter trips make sense - and what would
be a good introduction?

Starting in Nairobi I find the net crowded with horror stories from Nairobi.
People afraid of stopping at (the few) stoplights in the city because of
carjackings? What is the truth here? Is this a city to avoid as much as
possible - or are the rumors somewhat exaggerated?

yours sincerely
-Simon

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IMPORTANT enough to top-post:

Number one big hint:
*Don't* try to cram too much in, or you'll spend all your time travelling
between destinations rather than seeing the animals.



In message <42404a8b$0$201$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
"Simon Laub" <sil@ccieurope.com> wrote:

> I am going to Kenya in december and will have app. 7 days to spend doing
> tourist stuff. Obviously it will not be a problem to spend this time, but I
> will been very happy for suggestions on what will the best way to spend this
> time on a somewhat limited budget.

Depends *how* limited the budget!
Can't be all that limited if you're thinking of gorilla trekking - IIRC, the
permit *alone* is $250 per day in Uganda.


> Both Safari, (gorilla) tracking and mountain trekking etc. seems very
> interesting - but given the limitations in time I suppose something has to
> give. And perhaps something else would actually be just as interesting?
Depends what you're interested in!


> I imagine some sort of Safari is a must? And that both a Masai Mara trip or
> a Serengeti trip into Tanzania will be available from Nairobi. Looking at
> some of the agencies offerings - a 3 to 4 day trip seems reasonable? Any
> comments?
Serengeti would be preferable to the Mara in December, as that is where the
big numbers of animals will be.
If I had - only :-((( - a week in Kenya in December (the short rains should
be over, but nothing is guaranteed) I'd probably spend 3/4 nights in
Samburu/Buffalo Springs, a night at either Treetops/The Ark or Mountain
Lodge and 2/3 nights in Amboseli.


Alternatively, if you wanted to include Serengeti, you could do 2 nights in
Amboseli, 3 nights in Serengeti and 2 nights at the Ngorongoro caldera.
Or some combination of the Northern Circuit in Tz, leaving out Amboseli but
including Tarangire or Lake Manyara.



My ***number one big hint*** repeated:
*Don't* try to cram too much in, or you'll spend all your time travelling
between destinations rather than seeing the animals.



> More ambitious - I have been looking at Gorilla tracking expeditions in
> Uganda:
> http://www.uwa.or.ug/
>
> http://www.uwa.or.ug/gorilla.html
>
> http://www.uwa.or.ug/bwindi.html
>
> Is that realistic in the given timeframe - or/ and is that something you
> would normally only do on a much longer trip?
If that's your *priority*, i.e. it might be your only trip to Africa (don't
even think about betting on it!) and you really want to see gorillas, than
it's realistic. The last time I was in Kenya ('02) you could apparently
arrange a gorilla trek from the tour desk in Nairobi hotels (craftily,
they gave a price "not including permits", but without an indication of what
the permits would cost, which was quite naughty, I thought!

There are only so many gorilla permits per day. I don't know how likely they
are to be full up in December: they usually advise you to book well in
advance. Friends who went one July said that people on another tour thought
they had permits for two consecutive days. It turned out they only had one,
and the permits for the second day were sold out so they just had to 'hang
around the camp' for the morning, pretty miffed.


> > Reading websites on Kenya I cant really get an easy handle on treks around
> Mt. Kenya and Mt. Kilimanjaro. Often one reads something about 5 or 6 day
> treks for each mountain. But does shorter trips make sense - and what would
> be a good introduction?
I'm not a hill walker, but I believe that time is ready to minimise your
chances of getting altitude sickness, which apparently has nothing to do
with your age or general physical condition.


> Starting in Nairobi I find the net crowded with horror stories from Nairobi.
> People afraid of stopping at (the few) stoplights in the city because of
> carjackings? What is the truth here? Is this a city to avoid as much as
> possible.
Yes.
Get a taxi arranged from your accommodation if you need to go anywhere in
the town.
They'll wait for you for ages, usually for no extra charge.

If you really must wander around Nairobi on your own, look very scruffy and
poor - dusty shoes are a big help!.


Info about all the places mentioned above except Uganda on my non-commercial
website: main index http://www.v-liz.com/index2.htm.


Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

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IMPORTANT enough to top-post:

Number one big hint:
*Don't* try to cram too much in, or you'll spend all your time travelling
between destinations rather than seeing the animals.



In message <42404a8b$0$201$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
"Simon Laub" <sil@ccieurope.com> wrote:

> I am going to Kenya in december and will have app. 7 days to spend doing
> tourist stuff. Obviously it will not be a problem to spend this time, but I
> will been very happy for suggestions on what will the best way to spend this
> time on a somewhat limited budget.

Depends *how* limited the budget!
Can't be all that limited if you're thinking of gorilla trekking - IIRC, the
permit *alone* is $250 per day in Uganda.


> Both Safari, (gorilla) tracking and mountain trekking etc. seems very
> interesting - but given the limitations in time I suppose something has to
> give. And perhaps something else would actually be just as interesting?
Depends what you're interested in!


> I imagine some sort of Safari is a must? And that both a Masai Mara trip or
> a Serengeti trip into Tanzania will be available from Nairobi. Looking at
> some of the agencies offerings - a 3 to 4 day trip seems reasonable? Any
> comments?
Serengeti would be preferable to the Mara in December, as that is where the
big numbers of animals will be.
If I had - only :-((( - a week in Kenya in December (the short rains should
be over, but nothing is guaranteed) I'd probably spend 3/4 nights in
Samburu/Buffalo Springs, a night at either Treetops/The Ark or Mountain
Lodge and 2/3 nights in Amboseli.


Alternatively, if you wanted to include Serengeti, you could do 2 nights in
Amboseli, 3 nights in Serengeti and 2 nights at the Ngorongoro caldera.
Or some combination of the Northern Circuit in Tz, leaving out Amboseli but
including Tarangire or Lake Manyara.



My ***number one big hint*** repeated:
*Don't* try to cram too much in, or you'll spend all your time travelling
between destinations rather than seeing the animals.



> More ambitious - I have been looking at Gorilla tracking expeditions in
> Uganda:
> http://www.uwa.or.ug/
>
> http://www.uwa.or.ug/gorilla.html
>
> http://www.uwa.or.ug/bwindi.html
>
> Is that realistic in the given timeframe - or/ and is that something you
> would normally only do on a much longer trip?
If that's your *priority*, i.e. it might be your only trip to Africa (don't
even think about betting on it!) and you really want to see gorillas, than
it's realistic. The last time I was in Kenya ('02) you could apparently
arrange a gorilla trek from the tour desk in Nairobi hotels (craftily,
they gave a price "not including permits", but without an indication of what
the permits would cost, which was quite naughty, I thought!

There are only so many gorilla permits per day. I don't know how likely they
are to be full up in December: they usually advise you to book well in
advance. Friends who went one July said that people on another tour thought
they had permits for two consecutive days. It turned out they only had one,
and the permits for the second day were sold out so they just had to 'hang
around the camp' for the morning, pretty miffed.


> > Reading websites on Kenya I cant really get an easy handle on treks around
> Mt. Kenya and Mt. Kilimanjaro. Often one reads something about 5 or 6 day
> treks for each mountain. But does shorter trips make sense - and what would
> be a good introduction?
I'm not a hill walker, but I believe that time is ready to minimise your
chances of getting altitude sickness, which apparently has nothing to do
with your age or general physical condition.


> Starting in Nairobi I find the net crowded with horror stories from Nairobi.
> People afraid of stopping at (the few) stoplights in the city because of
> carjackings? What is the truth here? Is this a city to avoid as much as
> possible.
Yes.
Get a taxi arranged from your accommodation if you need to go anywhere in
the town.
They'll wait for you for ages, usually for no extra charge.

If you really must wander around Nairobi on your own, look very scruffy and
poor - dusty shoes are a big help!.


Info about all the places mentioned above except Uganda on my non-commercial
website: main index http://www.v-liz.com/index2.htm.


Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

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>> More ambitious - I have been looking at Gorilla tracking expeditions
>> in Uganda:
>> http://www.uwa.or.ug/
>>
>> http://www.uwa.or.ug/gorilla.html
>>
>> http://www.uwa.or.ug/bwindi.html
>>
>> Is that realistic in the given timeframe - or/ and is that something
>> you would normally only do on a much longer trip?
> If that's your *priority*, i.e. it might be your only trip to Africa
> (don't even think about betting on it!) and you really want to see
> gorillas, than it's realistic. The last time I was in Kenya ('02) you
> could apparently arrange a gorilla trek from the tour desk in Nairobi
> hotels (craftily, they gave a price "not including permits", but
> without an indication of what the permits would cost, which was quite
> naughty, I thought!
>
> There are only so many gorilla permits per day. I don't know how
> likely they are to be full up in December: they usually advise you to
> book well in advance. Friends who went one July said that people on
> another tour thought they had permits for two consecutive days. It
> turned out they only had one, and the permits for the second day were
> sold out so they just had to 'hang around the camp' for the morning,
> pretty miffed.
>

The price of the permits has gone up last year :
For Uganda it is now $360.
In Rwanda a permit is now $375.
For both visits you may have to add the cost of a visa (Uganda : $30,
Rwanda : $60).
You will also spend at least day travelling to Uganda/Rwanda and back. So
it will take at least 3 days. The road to Bwindi in Uganda is not very
good, so I think going to Rwanda is may be easier (may be flying from
Nairobi to Kigali). The main roads in Rwanda are in very good condition.

I visited Uganda+Rwanda last year in an organised tour. The travel
company has more detailed informat on their website
(http://www.gorillatours.com).

Jan

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>> More ambitious - I have been looking at Gorilla tracking expeditions
>> in Uganda:
>> http://www.uwa.or.ug/
>>
>> http://www.uwa.or.ug/gorilla.html
>>
>> http://www.uwa.or.ug/bwindi.html
>>
>> Is that realistic in the given timeframe - or/ and is that something
>> you would normally only do on a much longer trip?
> If that's your *priority*, i.e. it might be your only trip to Africa
> (don't even think about betting on it!) and you really want to see
> gorillas, than it's realistic. The last time I was in Kenya ('02) you
> could apparently arrange a gorilla trek from the tour desk in Nairobi
> hotels (craftily, they gave a price "not including permits", but
> without an indication of what the permits would cost, which was quite
> naughty, I thought!
>
> There are only so many gorilla permits per day. I don't know how
> likely they are to be full up in December: they usually advise you to
> book well in advance. Friends who went one July said that people on
> another tour thought they had permits for two consecutive days. It
> turned out they only had one, and the permits for the second day were
> sold out so they just had to 'hang around the camp' for the morning,
> pretty miffed.
>

The price of the permits has gone up last year :
For Uganda it is now $360.
In Rwanda a permit is now $375.
For both visits you may have to add the cost of a visa (Uganda : $30,
Rwanda : $60).
You will also spend at least day travelling to Uganda/Rwanda and back. So
it will take at least 3 days. The road to Bwindi in Uganda is not very
good, so I think going to Rwanda is may be easier (may be flying from
Nairobi to Kigali). The main roads in Rwanda are in very good condition.

I visited Uganda+Rwanda last year in an organised tour. The travel
company has more detailed informat on their website
(http://www.gorillatours.com).

Jan

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"Liz" <invalid@v-liz.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cb0ec34f4d.ri48000239@liz13.uklinux.net...
> IMPORTANT enough to top-post:
>
> Number one big hint:
> *Don't* try to cram too much in, or you'll spend all your time travelling
> between destinations rather than seeing the animals.

Thanks for this brilliant reply. It is very helpful with this kind of "on
the ground" advice. I get your point that I shouldn't try to cram too much
in. I was leaning that way before, but now I am convinced.

> Serengeti would be preferable to the Mara in December, as that is where
the
> big numbers of animals will be.
> If I had - only :-((( - a week in Kenya in December (the short rains
should
> be over, but nothing is guaranteed) I'd probably spend 3/4 nights in
> Samburu/Buffalo Springs, a night at either Treetops/The Ark or Mountain
> Lodge and 2/3 nights in Amboseli.
>
>
> Alternatively, if you wanted to include Serengeti, you could do 2 nights
in
> Amboseli, 3 nights in Serengeti and 2 nights at the Ngorongoro caldera.
> Or some combination of the Northern Circuit in Tz, leaving out Amboseli
but
> including Tarangire or Lake Manyara.

I'll do some reading on this then. Exactly the kind of advice I was looking
for!

> If that's your *priority*, i.e. it might be your only trip to Africa
(don't
> even think about betting on it!) and you really want to see gorillas, than
> it's realistic.
> There are only so many gorilla permits per day. I don't know how likely
they
> are to be full up in December: they usually advise you to book well in
> advance. Friends who went one July said that people on another tour
thought
> they had permits for two consecutive days. It turned out they only had
one,
> and the permits for the second day were sold out so they just had to 'hang
> around the camp' for the morning, pretty miffed.

My first thought was that this sounded very interesting, but "difficult" in
the given timeframe. You seem to confirm this - so I guess I'll put that
plan on hold for the time being.

> Info about all the places mentioned above except Uganda on my
non-commercial
> website: main index http://www.v-liz.com/index2.htm.
> Liz

Thank you very much!

-Simon

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"Jan" <jan@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9621D9132D223jannowherecom@213.51.129.36...
> The price of the permits has gone up last year :
> For Uganda it is now $360.
> In Rwanda a permit is now $375.
> For both visits you may have to add the cost of a visa (Uganda : $30,
> Rwanda : $60).
> You will also spend at least day travelling to Uganda/Rwanda and back. So
> it will take at least 3 days. The road to Bwindi in Uganda is not very
> good, so I think going to Rwanda is may be easier (may be flying from
> Nairobi to Kigali). The main roads in Rwanda are in very good condition.
>
> I visited Uganda+Rwanda last year in an organised tour. The travel
> company has more detailed informat on their website
> (http://www.gorillatours.com).

However eager I am to follow in the footsteps of Dian Fossey - it does seem
that I would have to make this my absolutely top priority, if this should be
included in my december 7 day trip. More realisticly I should do this on
some later trip - but can't help thinking that there might be no gorillas
left then.

-Simon

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"Jan" <jan@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9621D9132D223jannowherecom@213.51.129.36...
> The price of the permits has gone up last year :
> For Uganda it is now $360.
> In Rwanda a permit is now $375.
> For both visits you may have to add the cost of a visa (Uganda : $30,
> Rwanda : $60).
> You will also spend at least day travelling to Uganda/Rwanda and back. So
> it will take at least 3 days. The road to Bwindi in Uganda is not very
> good, so I think going to Rwanda is may be easier (may be flying from
> Nairobi to Kigali). The main roads in Rwanda are in very good condition.
>
> I visited Uganda+Rwanda last year in an organised tour. The travel
> company has more detailed informat on their website
> (http://www.gorillatours.com).

However eager I am to follow in the footsteps of Dian Fossey - it does seem
that I would have to make this my absolutely top priority, if this should be
included in my december 7 day trip. More realisticly I should do this on
some later trip - but can't help thinking that there might be no gorillas
left then.

-Simon

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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:40:43 +0100, "Simon Laub"
<sil@ccieurope.com> wrote:

>I am going to Kenya in december and will have app. 7 days to spend doing
>tourist stuff. Obviously it will not be a problem to spend this time, but I
>will been very happy for suggestions on what will the best way to spend this
>time on a somewhat limited budget.
>
>Both Safari, (gorilla) tracking and mountain trekking etc. seems very
>interesting - but given the limitations in time I suppose something has to
>give. And perhaps something else would actually be just as interesting?
>
>I imagine some sort of Safari is a must? And that both a Masai Mara trip or
>a Serengeti trip into Tanzania will be available from Nairobi. Looking at
>some of the agencies offerings - a 3 to 4 day trip seems reasonable? Any
>comments?

Simon,

essentially I only repeat what Liz already wrote. If I had only
one week, starting and ending in Nairobi, I would aim for two
major destinations to cut down on travel time.

If you'd try more, I'd retort that what you might gain in width,
you'd only lose in depth.

I would skip the gorillas, because they are too far away and too
difficult to get to. I think it is not a good idea to aim for
the gorillas on a first time trip to east Africa.

I'm not sure if I'd go to Tanzania either, because of the longer
distances, except perhaps if you fly in, but that's again more
expensive.

My first thought is always Samburu and Maasai Mara, followed by
Amboseli, all in Kenya. A night in The Ark may or may not be a
good idea, depending on whether you enjoy the night and can feel
good while not sleeping much that night. If, however, you prefer
to go to bed early and sleep long, then skip those mountain
lodges. They wouldn't be worth the money and the time.

For travel preparations and background information have a look
at http://www.michna.com/kenya.htm .

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

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"Hans-Georg Michna" <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> wrote in message
news:s4i2419ff156pgmc0vujfnns3eca2i7337@4ax.com...
> If you'd try more, I'd retort that what you might gain in width,
> you'd only lose in depth.

Sounds reasonable. I am coming around to that viewpoint now.

> I would skip the gorillas, because they are too far away and too
> difficult to get to. I think it is not a good idea to aim for
> the gorillas on a first time trip to east Africa.

Point taken.

> For travel preparations and background information have a look
> at http://www.michna.com/kenya.htm .

Thanks :-)

-Simon

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