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from the Wall Street Journal, Dec 28, Tuesday, page B1 and continued onto
B4:

Reality Bites Wannabe Chefs (chefs, the guys at restaurants that cook your
food). Its even worse than in science. High attrition, low pay, very few
nice jobs, most jobs are 60-80 hours/week, or more.

Article says 50-60% of students leave the cooking career after 3 years.

The good side is that chef school may be fairly short (1-2 years), the
article didn't say for sure but made it sound like at most you put in
$25 - $50K. Anyone out there know how long formal chef shool is?

Article says -- you guessed it -- enrolment is up some 40+% since 2000 and
most of it is due to kids seeing so much cooking shows on TV.

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straydog wrote:
>
> from the Wall Street Journal, Dec 28, Tuesday, page B1 and continued
> onto B4:
>
> Reality Bites Wannabe Chefs (chefs, the guys at restaurants that cook
> your food). Its even worse than in science. High attrition, low pay,
> very few nice jobs, most jobs are 60-80 hours/week, or more.
>
> Article says 50-60% of students leave the cooking career after 3 years.

At the place where I used to teach I met two students who had started
out as short-order cooks. One, I believe, worked in oil camps where, as
I heard it, one has to be good in order to keep a job as the clientele
can be quite particular. Both left because of the money.

>
> The good side is that chef school may be fairly short (1-2 years), the
> article didn't say for sure but made it sound like at most you put in
> $25 - $50K. Anyone out there know how long formal chef shool is?

That place had a program in cooking (two years long, I think). I
believe that it allowed someone to actually work in a restaurant or a
hotel, but not actually run the kitchen. Part of their training
involved working in the institute's dining facilities so, often, if one
went there for a meal, one would be eating someone's student exercise.

One of the instructors there was qualified as a pastry chef and, as I
recall, studied in Germany in order to learn that. (Some of the
handiwork that those students produced was fabulous--and wondrously
fattening.)

>
> Article says -- you guessed it -- enrolment is up some 40+% since 2000
> and most of it is due to kids seeing so much cooking shows on TV.
>

Even if one gets on with a restaurant, it's not always a safe situation.
I live about fifteen minutes walk away from several such places and a
number of them have either closed or changed owners over the years even
though I don't recall any of them lacking for customers.

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On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, BMJ wrote:

> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:41:11 GMT
> From: BMJ <parametric_equation@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
> Subject: Re: Another career scam....
>
> straydog wrote:
>>
>> from the Wall Street Journal, Dec 28, Tuesday, page B1 and continued onto
>> B4:
>>
>> Reality Bites Wannabe Chefs (chefs, the guys at restaurants that cook your
>> food). Its even worse than in science. High attrition, low pay, very few
>> nice jobs, most jobs are 60-80 hours/week, or more.
>>
>> Article says 50-60% of students leave the cooking career after 3 years.
>
> At the place where I used to teach I met two students who had started out as
> short-order cooks. One, I believe, worked in oil camps where, as I heard it,
> one has to be good in order to keep a job as the clientele can be quite
> particular. Both left because of the money.
>
>>
>> The good side is that chef school may be fairly short (1-2 years), the
>> article didn't say for sure but made it sound like at most you put in $25 -
>> $50K. Anyone out there know how long formal chef shool is?
>
> That place had a program in cooking (two years long, I think). I believe
> that it allowed someone to actually work in a restaurant or a hotel, but not
> actually run the kitchen. Part of their training involved working in the
> institute's dining facilities so, often, if one went there for a meal, one
> would be eating someone's student exercise.
>
> One of the instructors there was qualified as a pastry chef and, as I recall,
> studied in Germany in order to learn that. (Some of the handiwork that those
> students produced was fabulous--and wondrously fattening.)
>
>>
>> Article says -- you guessed it -- enrolment is up some 40+% since 2000 and
>> most of it is due to kids seeing so much cooking shows on TV.
>>
>
> Even if one gets on with a restaurant, it's not always a safe situation. I
> live about fifteen minutes walk away from several such places and a number of
> them have either closed or changed owners over the years even though I don't
> recall any of them lacking for customers.
>

Actually, the place to be is among the waitstaff at a high end joint.
There was an article in the WSJ about ten years ago telling about high end
restaurants where they are always busy, 7 days a week, and have Ritz
prices. And, yes, Ritz has Ritz prices (eg. $5-7 for a cup of joe, 14-17
for appetizer, $35+ main dish, etc., throw in 1-2 bottles of $250 wine)
and 25%+ level tips gets a fancy waitperson a $50K/year income.

Yeah, nice work if you can get it.

In yet another article, being a fancy waitperson is an artform: how to
sell more expensive to clients without them knowing they are being
"upscaled."

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straydog wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, BMJ wrote:
>
>> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:41:11 GMT
>> From: BMJ <parametric_equation@yahoo.com>
>> Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
>> Subject: Re: Another career scam....
>>
>> straydog wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> from the Wall Street Journal, Dec 28, Tuesday, page B1 and continued
>>> onto B4:
>>>
>>> Reality Bites Wannabe Chefs (chefs, the guys at restaurants that cook
>>> your food). Its even worse than in science. High attrition, low pay,
>>> very few nice jobs, most jobs are 60-80 hours/week, or more.
>>>
>>> Article says 50-60% of students leave the cooking career after 3 years.
>>
>>
>> At the place where I used to teach I met two students who had started
>> out as short-order cooks. One, I believe, worked in oil camps where,
>> as I heard it, one has to be good in order to keep a job as the
>> clientele can be quite particular. Both left because of the money.
>>
>>>
>>> The good side is that chef school may be fairly short (1-2 years),
>>> the article didn't say for sure but made it sound like at most you
>>> put in $25 - $50K. Anyone out there know how long formal chef shool is?
>>
>>
>> That place had a program in cooking (two years long, I think). I
>> believe that it allowed someone to actually work in a restaurant or a
>> hotel, but not actually run the kitchen. Part of their training
>> involved working in the institute's dining facilities so, often, if
>> one went there for a meal, one would be eating someone's student
>> exercise.
>>
>> One of the instructors there was qualified as a pastry chef and, as I
>> recall, studied in Germany in order to learn that. (Some of the
>> handiwork that those students produced was fabulous--and wondrously
>> fattening.)
>>
>>>
>>> Article says -- you guessed it -- enrolment is up some 40+% since
>>> 2000 and most of it is due to kids seeing so much cooking shows on TV.
>>>
>>
>> Even if one gets on with a restaurant, it's not always a safe
>> situation. I live about fifteen minutes walk away from several such
>> places and a number of them have either closed or changed owners over
>> the years even though I don't recall any of them lacking for customers.
>>
>
> Actually, the place to be is among the waitstaff at a high end joint.
> There was an article in the WSJ about ten years ago telling about high
> end restaurants where they are always busy, 7 days a week, and have Ritz
> prices. And, yes, Ritz has Ritz prices (eg. $5-7 for a cup of joe, 14-17
> for appetizer, $35+ main dish, etc., throw in 1-2 bottles of $250 wine)
> and 25%+ level tips gets a fancy waitperson a $50K/year income.

I once met a waiter who made nearly as much as I did teaching with a Ph.
D. Maybe I'm in the wrong business....

>
> Yeah, nice work if you can get it.
>
> In yet another article, being a fancy waitperson is an artform: how to
> sell more expensive to clients without them knowing they are being
> "upscaled."

Most people that I know who dine out couldn't tell the difference
between filet mignon and a piece of cardboard, so they'd be easily
caught with that.

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"straydog" <advocacy@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.61.0412300054230.21058@sdf.lonestar.org...
>
> from the Wall Street Journal, Dec 28, Tuesday, page B1 and continued onto
> B4:
>
> Reality Bites Wannabe Chefs (chefs, the guys at restaurants that cook your
> food). Its even worse than in science. High attrition, low pay, very few
> nice jobs, most jobs are 60-80 hours/week, or more.
>

My colleague's son went to Chef School for 2 years. It was a place in NY
with a really good reputation. I think the kid is doing O.K. I've not
heard that the parents are sorry they went this route.

A Prof. I know sendt his not too bright kid to motorcycle repair school. I
understand this is a high paying niche job.

My kid went to law school. Forget it. Too much investment, too much hard
work. The only thing it has going is unlimited earning's potential for the
very talented and very lucky. My kid doesn't fall in either category.

But lawyers don't get exposed to lethal germs, dangerous chemicals, or
animal shit, as most bio-sci people do. They do get exposed to dumb,
dumber, and crazy psychotic clients. They also get to see the sleazy
underbelly of the corporate world in all its glory. You know, nice folk
like that nice insurance company that won't pay grandma after grandpa dies.
Or, the kindly real estate company that thinks it should get paid its rent
after the heat and water were off for 10 consequtive days.

Old Dad getting older. Happy New Year.

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Who gives a shit, and so what does this have to do with science
careers..??.

Please only discuss science careers on this forum.

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Who gives a shit, and so what does this have to do with science
careers..??.

Please only discuss science careers on this forum.

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Who gives a shit, and so what does this have to do with science
careers..??.

Please only discuss science careers on this forum.

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Who gives a shit, and so what does this have to do with science
careers..??.

Please only discuss science careers on this forum.

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"Hot_Potato" <biker3a@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104438696.621017.166950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Who gives a shit, and so what does this have to do with science
> careers..??.
>
> Please only discuss science careers on this forum.
>

The flip side to science careers is what to do instead, because science
careers suck.

If you think your 26 K per year postdoc is a good deal, then you don't need
to read the other stuff talked about here.

If you think IT or "computer science" is a science career, see a shrink and
then move to Sri Lanka.

If you are in graduate school studying science (the real stuff like
chemistry and physics, and cell biology), ask your prof to tell you what the
last 5 or 10 students he graduated are doing. Contact them to double check.
Then, you will know whether to continue on with that prof. in that
department.

If you have a great science career paying 6 figures + and you aren't
retired, you have no business wasting your time here hurling insults or
hanging out here.

If you make a habit of hurling insults anonymously, you will do so face to
face, sooner or later. Then, kiss your science research career bye bye.

Now do you understand?

Old Dad giving good advice to an immature kid

Happy New Year.

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"Hot_Potato" <biker3a@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104438695.382486.166170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Who gives a shit, and so what does this have to do with science
> careers..??.
>
> Please only discuss science careers on this forum.
>

I did! I talked about the fact that science careers involve getting exposed
to
chemicals, infectious agents, and animal shit. That's pretty pertinent.
Lots of people don't like to get exposed to chemcials, infectious agents,
and animal shit. Learn to read!

If you don't want a science careeer in which you are exposed to chemicals,
infectious agents, and animal shit, become a physicist. I hear the
employment opportunities in physics are smaller than string. (That's a
physics joke :_)

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