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I wish to detail in full form in why I am calling for self harm to be an
arrestable offence.

http://users.bigpond.com/willwalk/selfharm.htm

There simply aren't enough beds in hospitals for needy cases because the
beds are being taken up by people who self harm. I am furious that not
enough is being done to stamp out the undesirable people who are abusing the
health system at the expense of more needy cases. Not only is it an
Australia wide problem it is a world wide problem in exactly the same manner
as welfare dependency.

I feel the nurses and the doctors shouldn't have to put up with the
admittance and abuse from people who self harm because they have so much
more pressing cases to attend to.

William Walker

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On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:28:41 GMT, "William Walker"
<ww1971@bigpond.com> wrote:


>
>I feel the nurses and the doctors shouldn't have to put up with the
>admittance and abuse from people who self harm because they have so much
>more pressing cases to attend to.
>

Please give examples of the more pressing cases. Thanks.
Becky

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"Starlight" <homehealth_rnDELETE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:l03nn0hc5o8lilvefpdmv35dc4nge9th6s@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:28:41 GMT, "William Walker"
> <ww1971@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I feel the nurses and the doctors shouldn't have to put up with the
>>admittance and abuse from people who self harm because they have so much
>>more pressing cases to attend to.
>>
>
> Please give examples of the more pressing cases. Thanks.
> Becky

the usual

heart attacks
cancer
falls among old people
accidents, car accidents
plus all other major things

William Walkr

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On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:30:22 +0000, William Walker wrote:

>
> "Starlight" <homehealth_rnDELETE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:l03nn0hc5o8lilvefpdmv35dc4nge9th6s@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:28:41 GMT, "William Walker"
>> <ww1971@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I feel the nurses and the doctors shouldn't have to put up with the
>>>admittance and abuse from people who self harm because they have so much
>>>more pressing cases to attend to.
>>>
>>
>> Please give examples of the more pressing cases. Thanks.
>> Becky
>
> the usual
>
> heart attacks
> cancer
> falls among old people
> accidents, car accidents
> plus all other major things
>
> William Walkr

William,
At risk of becoming royally Trolled, let me suggest one word: Triage.
Google it if you have to...
Seems your fine country has a *disaster* on it's hands. Well, guess what
pal? In a disaster, medical response teams in any "Westernized" society
resort to triage. I suspect you represent some kind of political interest
group in Oz. In which case, kindly bugger off.

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>
> I feel the nurses and the doctors shouldn't have to put up with the
> admittance and abuse from people who self harm because they have so much
> more pressing cases to attend to.
>

So what you are saying is that mental illness is a myth. How far are you
willing to lobby the government for these changes. What do you call self
harm? Are you including people that do not have a normal BMI are self
harming so if they get sick then they should be arrested? People that have
other lifestyle weaknesses should also be included here? People that do not
exercise a legislated 30-45 mins a day get arrested for increasing their
chance of sickness? Where do you stop with self harm? Or are you
suggesting only one particular type of self harm being that of instant cause
and effect rather than lifestyle choices that can bring on a slow onset but
expensive treatments.

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"William Walker" <ww1971@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<ttLed.37451$5O5.16924@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> I wish to detail in full form in why I am calling for self harm to be an
> arrestable offence.
>
> http://users.bigpond.com/willwalk/selfharm.htm
>
> There simply aren't enough beds in hospitals for needy cases because the
> beds are being taken up by people who self harm.

Too easy.

Personal act, personal responsibility.

If a person freely engages in an action that causes them to end up in
hospital then let them pay the bill.

Sometimes William you should just think through a few possible
alternatives that may provide more freedom and more efficiency.

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lev_lafayette@yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) wrote in message news:<95670408.0410241850.15b97b5d@posting.google.com>...
[cut]
>
> Personal act, personal responsibility.
>
> If a person freely engages in an action that causes them to end up in
> hospital then let them pay the bill.

This assumes the decision to self harm is rational and actually made
of the person's free will. If they are driven to act by mental illness
the effect is the same as if they are coerced into the act by a third
party.

DM
personal opinion only

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Lev Lafayette wrote:

> "William Walker" <ww1971@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<ttLed.37451$5O5.16924@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
>
>>I wish to detail in full form in why I am calling for self harm to be an
>>arrestable offence.
>>
>>http://users.bigpond.com/willwalk/selfharm.htm
>>
>>There simply aren't enough beds in hospitals for needy cases because the
>>beds are being taken up by people who self harm.
>
>
> Too easy.
>
> Personal act, personal responsibility.
>
> If a person freely engages in an action that causes them to end up in
> hospital then let them pay the bill.

How close does the link have to be between the freely engaged action,
and the resulting injury.

Popping pills seems direct enough, as does throwing your self off a
cliff. But what about point jumping (with a parachute), hang-gliding,
motorcycling, rugby playing, car travel, walking down the street, eating
too much, staying in bed?

How do we decide where personal resposibility ends?

Sylvia.

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Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message news:<417cad2d$0$32599$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
> Lev Lafayette wrote:
>
> > "William Walker" <ww1971@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<ttLed.37451$5O5.16924@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> >
> >>I wish to detail in full form in why I am calling for self harm to be an
> >>arrestable offence.
> >>
> >>http://users.bigpond.com/willwalk/selfharm.htm
> >>
> >>There simply aren't enough beds in hospitals for needy cases because the
> >>beds are being taken up by people who self harm.
> >
> >
> > Too easy.
> >
> > Personal act, personal responsibility.
> >
> > If a person freely engages in an action that causes them to end up in
> > hospital then let them pay the bill.
>
> How close does the link have to be between the freely engaged action,
> and the resulting injury.
>
> Popping pills seems direct enough, as does throwing your self off a
> cliff. But what about point jumping (with a parachute), hang-gliding,
> motorcycling, rugby playing, car travel, walking down the street, eating
> too much, staying in bed?
>
> How do we decide where personal resposibility ends?

Hey, I merely suggested "a" solution, not "the" solution.

One word keeps on popping up in my mind with your examples, and that's
"insurance" versus "accidents".

It's certainly better than adopting Mr. Walkers sadism which would
turn a troubled junkie or other suicide case into an institution which
is notorious for drugs and suicides.

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d-moss@adfa.edu.au (DM) wrote in message news:<fa5b13c7.0410242224.7140da56@posting.google.com>...
> lev_lafayette@yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) wrote in message news:<95670408.0410241850.15b97b5d@posting.google.com>...
> [cut]
> >
> > Personal act, personal responsibility.
> >
> > If a person freely engages in an action that causes them to end up in
> > hospital then let them pay the bill.
>
> This assumes the decision to self harm is rational and actually made
> of the person's free will. If they are driven to act by mental illness
> the effect is the same as if they are coerced into the act by a third
> party.
>

*nods* You won't find any disagreement with me on that one. Mr.
Walker's suggestion that mentally ill suicide prone people should be
locked up in prison is a very sad indication of his lack of
forethought.

One day he may be in that situation himself.

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"Lev Lafayette" <lev_lafayette@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:95670408.0410251521.ae202f5@posting.google.com...
> d-moss@adfa.edu.au (DM) wrote in message
news:<fa5b13c7.0410242224.7140da56@posting.google.com>...
> > lev_lafayette@yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) wrote in message
news:<95670408.0410241850.15b97b5d@posting.google.com>...
> > [cut]
> > >

<snip>

> *nods* You won't find any disagreement with me on that one. Mr.
> Walker's suggestion that mentally ill suicide prone people should be
> locked up in prison is a very sad indication of his lack of
> forethought.
>
> One day he may be in that situation himself.

I think Mr Walker is already skipping his meds.

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Somehow I don't think that arresting every overweight American is
realistic. However, maybe they should pay by the pound each time they: get
on public transit, use a public toilet, get on an airplane etc.

"William Walker" <ww1971@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:ttLed.37451$5O5.16924@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I wish to detail in full form in why I am calling for self harm to be an
> arrestable offence.
>
> http://users.bigpond.com/willwalk/selfharm.htm
>
> There simply aren't enough beds in hospitals for needy cases because the
> beds are being taken up by people who self harm. I am furious that not
> enough is being done to stamp out the undesirable people who are abusing
the
> health system at the expense of more needy cases. Not only is it an
> Australia wide problem it is a world wide problem in exactly the same
manner
> as welfare dependency.
>
> I feel the nurses and the doctors shouldn't have to put up with the
> admittance and abuse from people who self harm because they have so much
> more pressing cases to attend to.
>
> William Walker
>
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Being overweight isnt self-harm in the context we are discussing here.
Although it may be viewed as "self-harm", the term is reserved for more
specific acts of physical damage to the body i.e. cutting.

As for the overweightness, they should pay more for aeroplanes etc ! Makes
sense. Its fair, and it is an incentive to become more healthy.

Self-harm is a psychiatric condition though, thus i think hospitals rather
than jails. An initial admission through a regular hospital then psychiatric
followup.




"DT" <dlt2GETRIDOFNO@SPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
news:KJudnUJK5rarshHcRVn-rA@rogers.com...
> Somehow I don't think that arresting every overweight American is
> realistic. However, maybe they should pay by the pound each time they:
> get
> on public transit, use a public toilet, get on an airplane etc.
>
> "William Walker" <ww1971@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:ttLed.37451$5O5.16924@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> I wish to detail in full form in why I am calling for self harm to be an
>> arrestable offence.
>>
>> http://users.bigpond.com/willwalk/selfharm.htm
>>
>> There simply aren't enough beds in hospitals for needy cases because the
>> beds are being taken up by people who self harm. I am furious that not
>> enough is being done to stamp out the undesirable people who are abusing
> the
>> health system at the expense of more needy cases. Not only is it an
>> Australia wide problem it is a world wide problem in exactly the same
> manner
>> as welfare dependency.
>>
>> I feel the nurses and the doctors shouldn't have to put up with the
>> admittance and abuse from people who self harm because they have so much
>> more pressing cases to attend to.
>>
>> William Walker
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/04
>
>

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But these things also, could be self harm.

Heart Attacks--unhealthy lifestyle. That could be deemed self harm.

Cancer--also could be self harm.

Falls among old people--Did they take too much medication?? Not enough?
Checkups for bone loss? Could be self harm.

Accidents--Always could be lack of attention. That is self harm.
Particularly car accidents. Sleepy at the wheel?? Self harm.
**Lets face it. "self harm" is relative.

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Air Fare Changes

Commencing 1 January 2005 as part of Healthy Nation the new
Base-Include-Growth fare scheme commences

AUD$40.00 BASE FARE
PLUS
AUD$0,99 PER KILOGRAM # or part thereof




"Lostfrogg" <lostfrogg@danhackley.co.uk> wrote in message
news:41c42a23$0$9346$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
> Being overweight isnt self-harm in the context we are discussing here.
> Although it may be viewed as "self-harm", the term is reserved for more
> specific acts of physical damage to the body i.e. cutting.
>
> As for the overweightness, they should pay more for aeroplanes etc ! Makes
> sense. Its fair, and it is an incentive to become more healthy.
>
> Self-harm is a psychiatric condition though, thus i think hospitals rather
> than jails. An initial admission through a regular hospital then
> psychiatric followup.
>
>
>
>
> "DT" <dlt2GETRIDOFNO@SPAMrogers.com> wrote in message
> news:KJudnUJK5rarshHcRVn-rA@rogers.com...
>> Somehow I don't think that arresting every overweight American is
>> realistic. However, maybe they should pay by the pound each time they:
>> get
>> on public transit, use a public toilet, get on an airplane etc.
>>
>> "William Walker" <ww1971@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>> news:ttLed.37451$5O5.16924@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>> I wish to detail in full form in why I am calling for self harm to be an
>>> arrestable offence.
>>>
>>> http://users.bigpond.com/willwalk/selfharm.htm
>>>
>>> There simply aren't enough beds in hospitals for needy cases because the
>>> beds are being taken up by people who self harm. I am furious that not
>>> enough is being done to stamp out the undesirable people who are abusing
>> the
>>> health system at the expense of more needy cases. Not only is it an
>>> Australia wide problem it is a world wide problem in exactly the same
>> manner
>>> as welfare dependency.
>>>
>>> I feel the nurses and the doctors shouldn't have to put up with the
>>> admittance and abuse from people who self harm because they have so much
>>> more pressing cases to attend to.
>>>
>>> William Walker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/04
>>
>>
>
>

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